WPN

There are photographers at the above agency (Inc myself) who are trying to to get things done. In fact the above idiot who has replied to your posting has nothing better to do than act like a child who has not won the race & cries fowl. It would benefit all of us if idiot's like this keep quiet so the rest of us who are working hard to make something of our selfs are not impeded in doing so.

OK, this is the administrator. I am posting this exchange fro lightstalkers because it was generated from the poll and i feel compelled to post the full record of what has resulted from the WPN comment. i have redacted the names but here is the exchange:

Oh dear, I do seem to have hit a raw nerve (again...) with tktktk who's ended up spilling more beans than I ever intended to.

As for posting 'shit'...(apologies to anyone who won't have any idea what we're talking about) well, lets see what I said :

I simply said two things -

1/ The agency in question had suffered a "recent descent into virtual invisibility"...which wouldn't be denied by many of the highly regarded photographers who have left and the highly regarded figure who has just taken over - in fact his recent letter to photographers outlining the agency's problems pretty much confirms this.

2/ That staff were being fired...and this has been confirmed by tktktk himself.

So if tktktk could confirm which part of my posting was 'shit' or the 'bitching' comments of an 'idiot' or a 'child', I'll be happy to retract it.

Then perhaps he could also retract his PM message sent to me, despite my past requests to him not to PM or e-mail me again.

As for the 'baggage' which has been 'dumped' - if I assume tktkt means the archives of the photographers who left (including some of the agency founders), then most of them are sighing with relief because they're now making money again after moving their 'baggage' elsewhere.

I can't wait to get my 'baggage' outta there - the only reason I havent yet is because my agency contract forbade it.

Meanwhile one of my items of removed 'baggage' recently made the cover of Time Magazine, so again, Mark is free to allude that my images are 'shit' if he wishes, but others appear to disagree.

I sincerely hope though that Mark doesn't regard the staff who have been fired also as 'baggage' which can be 'dumped' so he can make something of himself with yet ANOTHER promise of a techno-fix website.

I'm sure the poor staff wanted to make something of themselves, and the agency too - but they'll probably be spending Christmas on the dole.

At this point, it might be useful to move on and discuss if small 'office based' staffed agencies are sadly, viable at all today.

Small agencies which are doing OK have ensured that they migrate as much output as possible to the Web, and a Digital Railroad front end, the Photoshelter 'Virtual Agency' concept or indeed a blog based entity like Warshooter might be a sign of the future.

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tktktkt you made the gravest error when you called me a grief tourist so I can say what I like about you here or in private.
As for the future of the agency it is in safe hands. As for the baggage I suppose that does mean your material so.... The situation with the staff is unfortunate but I remember a while back when you said the agency was "Not working" so that can be construed as them being baggage also.

Once again you have contradicted yourself so I will end this little exchange by reiterating that I think your an idiot. Maybe it's a raw nerve but I would much rather be called an idiot than a grief tourist which is why it has come to this.
By the way to all who are reading this maybe we should start a posting about what is acceptable dialogue among photographers. I'm sure there can be no one who would accept being called a grief tourist by another photographer as acceptable.

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Oh God, you aren't still aren't smarting from that are you?

You've been trailing after me on LS and in private for ages - you've got kids, why don't you go and spend some time with them instead of sending me abusive e-mails? You dish it out but you obviously can't take it.

If you don't want to be called a grief tourist then don't be one. Start being an agency photographer. You might have noticed, but your agency could really do with you stepping up right now and getting to work, ya know?

Stop shooting pics of people living in abject squalor to show people over a glass of red wine in Perpignan and start attending to your obligations as an agency photographer to produce enough work to give the staff something they can actually sell and promote.

I've just looked at the website and you appear to have only 200 images in the library. I have just under 1500 images there and I was only with them a year, which is probably as long as you. Most of my library images were shot on spec - why aren't you out there shooting?

The agency problems had nothing to do with the staff, who obviously can't sell anything if nobody produces anything - when I said I left because the agency wasn't working I obviously meant the company as a whole, which (as you signed on after I departed) now includes you.

200 images isn't exactly working hard for the collective good - one of the basic tenets of the agency - so maybe you'd like to tender your resignation as well as the staff?

If you want to discuss acceptable dialogue on LS, then consider whatever insults I have aimed your way have been in response to your private mails and have been sent back in private correspondence - and never on LS at any time.

However, just on this single LS thread alone, you have 'publicly' referred to me as shit, an idiot, a child, my comments as bitching and my images and postings as shit.

tktktk, I'm sure most of the people reading this are laughing their heads off, partially because they have no real idea what we're talking about, and partially because they probably think its well...just funny.

I thought so too at first several weeks ago, but no longer.

If the 'gravest error' has been made Mark, I assure you it has been made by you.

I will no longer exchange with you on this forum and have requested several times in private that you no longer mail me. I repeat that request again.

London is a surprisingly small place - we have never met, but I'm quite sure we will, and assuming you haven't signed up for anger management courses or had treatment for Tourette's Syndrome, you can continue your argument then if you wish, and call me shit, an idiot, a bitch, a child or any of your other private e-mail epithets to my face.

And believe me Mark, you will receive a reply from me then.

Where's ZUMA Press??

Mike Fox/Think First Media
www.thinkfirstmedia.com

Your work is marvelous!!

Where is Polaris? If you are going to put it out there, in a poll format nobody should be excluded.

I HATE Zuma! They are very selfish and ignorant and won't even reply to your e-mails even if you ask a little question. I wish them the worst of luck. They need to loosen up and not be so tight over everything. What's with that stupid "access limit reached" page? How do you expect media professionals to want to buy anything from you idiots if no one can even do a public search? If you're going to let people search for a photo and give them 5 seconds to do so, then the public search is useless! You guys are utterly ridiculous and downright ignorant. I have dealt with Zuma before and I cannot express enough on what a two-face the founder is. He says one thing and then a while later says the opposite. What a jerk!

I'm a newby, looking for the "best" agency to rep. me. Would you folks mind sharing your collective experience/wisdom and clue me in re. the most professional agencies to submit to? Or the outfits to stay away from? Many thanks.